The Michigan Association of Firefighters recently filed a lawsuit against the City of Novi on behalf of the Paid On-Call firefighters claiming Unfair Labor Practice.
The City of Novi uses a system of full-time firefighters from 6am to 6pm and trained paid on-call residents who work the 6pm to 6am shift. The relationship between these 2 groups have historically been less than stellar.
I’ll let the courts iron out the labor practice issue. My concern is with the taxpayer dollars. Why are we using our full-time firefighters and paying them (as I understand) overtime pay (during the POC shift) when we can use capable POC firefighters to do the same work at normal pay?
Note: A hearing was scheduled on October 1st. That date came and went and all we know (per posting on Novi.org) is the following:
Novi Fire Chief Frank Smith explains, “In the interest of good labor relations the parties have agreed to not discuss the details of the resolution. We look forward to a continued positive working relationship with the union.”
I have full confidence that whatever was agreed upon will lead to a better working relationship between the full-timers and the POC. Unfortunately, this does not seem resolve the question posed on this post. When I get a chance, I’ll knock on the Chief’s door.
I am apalled at this site trying to make out this issue with suggesting that one union is better than other. Maybe Willa Mena should do a little more reseatch on just why the department is so broken. Why that the POC and the Fulltime Firefighter have such a problem, could it be a jealousy issue or is it a fact that many of the reasons fulltime members were working on a different shift is because the level of available qualified POC were not available because they were working the sleep over program (thats a whole other story). Bottem line Willa is that the Administration at times uses members from both groups, the Fulltime Union I believe had had never Unfiar Labor Practice when POC members were brought in to work on the 6am to 6pm shift..
Let us really dig into the real problems going on at NFD, like the problems covering the sleep over program shifts, where many shifts are filled at the last minute; Where many of the stations have been close well over 100 times in the last year (closing a station means that not enough qualified and non-probationary firefighters are available), that several of the POC members are so resentful towrads fulltime members (that they used to call good friends), the new administration for not allowing them to run wild and do what ever they wanted like the old administration used to and treat them as if they are golden children. Willa do us a favor, do your research, get the facts correct and tell the whole truth.. ohh I think one of the issues the POC have is that the Fulltime Firefighters are now supervising them 24/7, ask your “source” why that is and tell the bloggers and readers why that is… Maybe instead of complaining and cring wolf, the POC members that are so upset should sit down with the adminsitration, the Fulltime firefighters and start acting as if they are really concerned about the citizens of Novi, instead of padding thier pocket books, causing continued striff asnd wanting to run the department. I believe we have elected officials that have hired a chief and deputy chief that have the expericance of knowing what the Fulltime and POC members need, what is best for the citizens of novi at the budget the elected officials give them each year. Let me say this, the Firefighters of Novi act very professional when they responde to a call (that is both the fulltime and POC members), but lets stop the whining and finger pointing and DO YOU JOBS, PROVIDE THE BEST CARE FOR THE CITIZENS ALL THE TIME, YOU WORK FOR US..THE CITIZENS WE DON’T CARE WHO IS RUNNING AT WHATEVER HOURS, JUST MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH PROPERLY TRAINED AND AVAILABLE FIREFIGHTER TO RESPOND DAY OR NOGHT. Thanks and be safe you are all Heros to us.
Jason,
Are you sure you read my post carefully?
I posted a simple question after reading what looked like a press release by the POC’s union (MAFF) and related information on Novi.org. Nowhere did I say or imply that one union was better than another, nor did I say or imply that the department was broken.
All I want to know is why we’re playing full-time firefighters overtime pay when we have POC to work the 6pm to 6am shift.
Would you like another shot at answering that question?
Willy,
I humbly apologize for not answering your question, from the information that has been passed to me many of the time fulltime members are utilized is due to the availability and the timeframes, lets face the facts that we all know, many of the POC members work long hours at thier fulltime jobs, they are required to make a specific percentage of emergency calls per month as well as a specific percentage of training (many mandated by the sate to keep thier EMS licensure) as well as many of these heros sign up to cover the sleep over programs at fire stations 1 and 2, which tends to leave a longer response time or limited members of the POC staff available to fill these special duties that pop up. From the information I have overheard from the grapevine (a different branch from the same grapevine you are getting yours) a few time the fulltime firefighters were brought in to accomplish a tasked that they were trained in as well as a open house where the whole department was represented. The problem that has been occuring over the years are the same individuals that are feeding the many blogs sites tend to be resentfull and are not willing to sit down with the adminsitration and work out what is BEST FOR THE CITIZENS OF NOVI..
Willy,
I hope that I have answered your question, the biggest problem over the years with many of the sites that showcase the blogs regarding the firefighters are negative, a few such as the new POC website as the awards that they have recieved are only a few positive hits. Much of the information is half truths and downright lies regarding how the department is operated, many of the special events wittin the city seemed to be handled by the POC members, but when an need for members to cover certain events that require a “I need to know right now” to help maintain the safety, security and services of the city, are we going to continue to scabble over a few times when Fulltime firefighters are used. Maybe many of the events could be cancelled, like birthday parties, block parties, free cpr classes that are being done at no cost, yet the POC are being paid for thier time (which rightly they should), maybe the the fire department should charge for these special events including free standbys for our citizens. I think what irrated me about your blog the most was the punching gloves you displayed with the MAFF and IAFF symbols on them, this is not a issue that the firefighters need to be fighting about, and many on the POC and Fulltime will want the readers to believe they are doing the best they can, yet members on both side need to sit down and work out the problems and see what is best for all, not thier own pocketbooks or pride, some have really forgotten why they became firefighters, not the money, not the glory, its about helping the citizens. The POC members have been working on the 6am to 6pm shifts for many years and there was never a problem, now when the adminsitration had called apon available heros someones dander gets up. Let me say if the POC members are ever needed during the fulltime shifts do they say no? do the Fulltime members say no when they are asked to work because of whatever need? They both understand what is best for the city above thier family and own needs at times. Please really read the whole articels Willy, not just pick and choose, I have answered your questions over and over again as wel as givine you a few ideas to pass o. Good luck and keep on keeping our city safe.
Jason/Kenneth,
City blogs like this are created to bring up issues that don’t normally make the local mainstream information centers. It’s about asking questions no one else is willing to ask. Nowhere did I say anything negative about our full-time firefighters. And, had the POC folks been getting paid OT for working day shift when others are willing and able to do it for straight time, this question would still have been asked.
Should residents not question whether city dollars are being spent appropriately? Again, it’s a simple question. I don’t care to read the cheapshots you took above, nor do I care about the dirty laundry and other irrelevant info you’ve decided to post. I have no idea about the “grapevine” you’re speaking of nor do I know of any other blog that has EVER brought up an issue remotely involving Novi firefighters.
From your comments, I’ve learned that there are other issues that need to be fixed which are irrelevant to the question I posed. I’m not sure I’ll get to the bottom of my question, because (if I’m reading correctly) you’re saying that the POC was not available to work those “special details” that they’re complaining about. Obviously, through filing a lawsuit, they feel differently.
Since the case will be heard on October 1 by an Administrative Law Judge, I just sit back and see what happens.